outubro 04, 2012
outubro 01, 2012
- João Neto: Do you think math concepts exist independently of persons (aka, mathematical platonism)?
- Alexander Nikitin: Define 'exist'. ---
- JN: Well, I overload the word 'exist' with two meanings: (i) existence independently of persons (let's call it exist-1) and, (ii) existence due to persons (exist-2). It's the separation of Maps and the Territory.
- AN: You can argue that only mind exist. Everything else are just ideas in your mind. Then you have an idea of natural numbers in your head. And you have an idea of a set of axioms and deduction rules that define your space of natural numbers. Then you start doing different things with your natural numbers following the rules and you find that the space has a structure and properties that depend on those axioms and rules only and nothing else in your mind. Your mind can do whatever it wants. It can have any other ideas, feelings and states, but whenever it follows the axioms and rules it always gets the same results. Does that mean that there is something that exists independently of your mind?
- JN: But there is evidence against solipsism: we have lots of data from our senses and tech extensions. And my mind cannot do whatever it wants, especially when I'm driving :-) We are more than one human, why would one single mind be special? And if we assume two or more minds (a belief that literally every one follows) then how could we explain the coincidence of sense data? The belief that 'only mind exist' does not help us at all, it dissolves everything and give us nothing.
- AN: If you believe that the 'real' world exists and math is just an artifact of human brain activity. Then notice several things: (1) You can define a mathematical system as purely abstract and symbolical without any attempts to model anything 'real'. You can even ask a computer to generate a random set of symbols, axioms and rules for you to exclude any 'subconscious' mapping to anything real; (2) You can give that math system to any other people and/or computers and notice that if they follow the rules they always get the same results regardless of the properties of their minds; (3) If you eventually manage to map your system to something 'real' you will notice another strange thing: the results of physical experiments will always follow predictions derived from the system once the mapping has been established, but it NEVER work in the opposite direction - physical results NEVER disprove any conclusions derived from the axioms and rules of the math system. They can prove that the mapping was wrong, but they can't 'bend' the 'truths' of the math system. As we see math is self-sufficient. Substrate independent. And physics always follows math. Then what is more 'real'?
- JN: The first and second point also work for board games. And games can be formalized as math objects. However, defending that, say, Chess exist-0 is a very strange assertion for me. I don't see the relevance of the third point. Some math mappings are adequate to formalize scientific models (since there are infinite mathematical models, only a vanishing part of them are really useful). And, sure, enough counter-evidence can cancel the previous adequacy between model and data. So what? Why would we want to use data to bend Math? We just try to find or create another Math model that does the trick. They are tools just like anything else. We use many maps/models. We could imagine a spectrum from totally objective to totally subjective. Humans developed a discipline to deal with those at the objective extreme of that spectrum and called it Math (Physics, which is just another family of models, is a close neighbor).
- AN: The third point is important because it tells us that math is not just a map. It has predictive power. A map doesn't give you more information than you already know from your 'real' data. It shows you only that part of the territory which you already have experienced. Once you get mathematical model you instantly know everything about your territory. All human engineering is based on this idea. Every day we build bridges, planes, skyscrapers - 'real' objects that never existed before - and we can do it successfully because we rely on the empirical fact that once we get the math right we can be sure that the 'real' system's behaviour will follow the math. Our experience tells us that the 'real' world is not random. It follows certain rules. That means that the rules exist. The rules are abstract concepts they are not a part of the physical world because they define it. So if you believe that the world is not random then you should accept that abstract concepts can exist independently of anything in the 'real' world. I asked you to define 'exist' in the beginning because abstract concepts don't exist in the same sense as 'real' things. We can not put them in any specific place and point in time. They exist outside of space-time. I think I was not clear from the beginning. My view is not just that abstract mathematical objects exist. My belief is that mathematics is the only thing that exists. Our 'real' world is just one of all possible mathematical systems that has 'self-aware' objects that precept their environment as 'real'. That's all.
- JN: When you say that the fundamental basis is Math, the only thing that exists, and outside space-time, you are putting yourself into a position that cannot be settled by evidence. Which is not unreasonable since we are talking metaphysics. I recently already read similar arguments from people like Bill Taylor, Massimo Pigliucci or Steve Landsburg (all quite clever chaps). I think we cannot possible breach the abyss between the Territory and the Map (for me, we are entirely Map denizens). I just don't like positions which are 100% argument and 0% evidence. So, I try to minimize my own 100% argument beliefs: I don't assume anything from the Territory except that it generates events. And that's because we are able to measure those events (these are partial measures due to the limitations of our sense apparatus). These events, as you said, do have some regularities that we adapt ourselves to them by customs and culture, and formalize some into scientific laws. Why there are regularities? I don't know. Nobody knows (anyway, as far as we know people would be impossible in a more random universe). It's a bit like Hume's guillotine for ethics, there's an ontological guillotine between existence-0 and existence-1. I would bet that no one will ever cross it (in fact, from my position, that does not even make sense). Now, when you say: "Our experience tells us that the 'real' world is not random. It follows certain rules. That means that the rules exist." I think you are falling into Whitehead's Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness (aka as ET Jayne's Mind Projection Fallacy). Rules imho only exist-1 in our minds. Perhaps using a less objective example, I can explain it better: humans share lots of cognitive bias. We can extract rules from well-made psychological studies. But we don't assume that these rules exist outside its scientific context. For me, the same happens with electrons, QM, etc. I see some wisdom in the "Shut Up and Calculate" attitude. In this case, we can only appreciate each other arguments. At the end of the day, we are confronting aesthetic positions not truly empirical ones.
Por João Neto às 16:48 0 comentário(s)
setembro 25, 2012
Speech and Violence
Por João Neto às 13:51 0 comentário(s)
setembro 24, 2012
Modelos
Por João Neto às 15:40 0 comentário(s)
setembro 23, 2012
Mapas
Por João Neto às 10:17 0 comentário(s)
setembro 06, 2012
Por João Neto às 10:09 0 comentário(s)
setembro 03, 2012
Por João Neto às 18:55 0 comentário(s)
julho 30, 2012
Cartas a Séneca
Encontro-me de costas para os augures. Observo o voo das aves e nada nele vejo. Os pássaros vão atrás uns dos outros, naquelas nuvens que fazem, na confusão e chilrear que aprendemos quando crianças a reconhecer. Ficaram alguns instantes nisto, como treinados, pareceu-me no meu tédio, para demorar certo tempo e não mais. Acabado o exercício voltaram para as toscas casas de madeira de onde os tinham libertados dois jovens no silêncio e com os olhos no chão durante o tempo que este teatro demorou. Paro um pouco a olhar para o mais alto dos dois. A cicatriz geométrica no ombro nu revela a sujeição ao culto, um símbolo que o acompanhará pela vida, reduzida a abrir portas a animais, no passar de utensílios nos sacrifícios, talvez a satisfazer as outras necessidades destes homens espirituais. E antes dele, quantas outras cicatrizes iguais, quantas dedicadas à antiguidade do mistério. O mais velho dos bruxos levantou-se, a encenar uma majestade nos gestos, uma imitação forçada que tanto contrasta com a facilidade natural daqueles que nascem e crescem nas nossas famílias romanas. Seguiu-se a ladainha do costume que enche o jus augurum, premonições e avisos, sentenças com as variações treinadas pela prática. O futuro, os receios vagos e não respondidos do presente, algo do nosso passado conhecido nesta cidade. A minha esposa ouve, com fervor, a leitura dos auspícios, o olhar fixo nos lábios do velho, eu fixo nos dela, o seu querer reduzido perante o culto. Na minha vontade, rápida e fugaz sim porém real, um desejo de ter este desejo, de acolher vontades de um passado que não o nosso. Algo das profundezas do que somos, talvez. Mas de mim visível, apenas eu quase imóvel, a abanar a cabeça levemente a mais esta superstição, apenas e mais outro luxo que suporto. Tanto que foi dito nas linhas vazias e cruzadas daquelas aves. A lembrar-me de alguma coisa pensaria no cruzar que os interesses, as ambições, a fortuna que nos limita uns contra os outros, uns com os outros, tão misteriosas e convolutas, tão caprichosas como os simples desejos de alguns pássaros. Que sinais são estes que precisamos, nós Romanos, ainda reconhecer? E que presságios esperamos encontrar no furtuíto do mundo natural que não encontramos na nossa filosofia? No fim, antes de sairmos, retive a mesma pergunta que raramente partilho, "Onde estão essas vozes que Aquiles, que Odisseus seguiam? As vozes que tanto se preocuparam e escreveram os antigos."
Por João Neto às 21:59 0 comentário(s)
julho 27, 2012
O Pão, não o Circo.
Por João Neto às 15:47 0 comentário(s)
julho 24, 2012
Metáforas
Por João Neto às 21:21 0 comentário(s)
Ano 2112
Se daqui a cem anos, assumindo que conseguimos evitar o colapso económico e ecológico global, como reagirão as pessoas à sociedade actual? Sendo optimista, listo alguns pontos que os poderiam revoltar:
- A profunda rede de influências entre o poder político e o poder financeiro. Quão forte é a ligação entre as grandes corporações e os governos dos estados que repetidamente passam por cima dos interesses do resto da sociedade.
- As proibições arbitrárias, os crimes sem vítimas, independentemente do impacto social que a sua aplicação provoca. O principal exemplo é a guerra contra as drogas. Outras restrições legais, também de origem religiosa, são os boicotes a direitos individuais como a eutanásia voluntária e à interrupção prematura da gravidez.
- A sangria constante do domínio púlico para satisfazer os interesses parasitas das indústrias de copyright e da legislação actual das patentes.
- A relevância de várias crenças anti-evidência e anti-razão, como a astrologia, as medicinas alternativas, a crença no crescimento ilimitado, o negar do aquecimento global ou da depleção dos recursos físicos da Terra.
- Quão generalizada continua a confusão entre crenças divinas e Ética. Quão aceite é a influência política e pedagógica dos vários líderes religiosos.
- O estado do Estado de Direito. A correlação forte entre riqueza e protecção judicial, e como a legislação é tornada complexa e inacessível para proteger quem pode contratar os melhores advogados. Como os partidos influenciam o ramo legislativo do Estado de forma a criar legislação conveniente.
- O grau de controle editorial e censura dos mass media promovido pelos interesses e compromissos das respectivas estruturas financeiras.
Por João Neto às 20:51 0 comentário(s)
julho 18, 2012
O outro lado do argumento
Por João Neto às 14:45 0 comentário(s)
julho 12, 2012
Capitalismo e Mercados
Por João Neto às 15:46 0 comentário(s)
julho 06, 2012
O mito da Quimera
[1] http://www.unifi.it/surfchem/solid/bardi/chimera/origins.html
[2] http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.pt/2012/06/making-peace-with-our-chimeras.html
Por João Neto às 14:38 0 comentário(s)
junho 28, 2012
Xeque
Muitos historiadores e sociólogos do conhecimento afirmam com segurança que toda pesquisa é tendenciosa. Pergunto-me como esse fato foi descoberto. Não é tautológico ou mesmo autoevidente. Certamente foi preciso investigação -- isto é,pesquisa -- para descobri-lo. Mas na medida em que a pesquisa é tendenciosa, as conclusões a que ela chega não merecem confiança. Assim, essa conclusão, a de que toda pesquisa é tendenciosa, se correta, não tem de merecer confiança. E, naturalmente, se estiver incorreta, então também não merece confiança. Portanto, não merece confiança. Poderia ser verdadeira, mas não podemos ter boas razões para pensar que seja.
Jarret Leplin, A novel defense of scientific realism; Oxford University Press, 1997. [via Blog da Crítica]
Por João Neto às 08:45 0 comentário(s)
junho 14, 2012
Vendilhões
Se um governo vendesse periodicamente os tesouros nacionais para manter o nível de vida dos cidadãos que representa, a maioria consideraria, com razão, ser este um comportamento irresponsável e insustentável. No entanto, é exactamente isto que fazemos com as nossas reservas energéticas.
Por João Neto às 12:31 2 comentário(s)
junho 05, 2012
A Ideologia do Cancer
Por João Neto às 15:38 0 comentário(s)
junho 04, 2012
Encontro com a realidade
Podem descarregar o livro aqui. E vão-se preparando: isto não vai ser bonito...
Por João Neto às 13:53 0 comentário(s)
maio 15, 2012
abril 28, 2012
One Shot
Por João Neto às 17:44 0 comentário(s)
abril 26, 2012
Eutanásia e Soylent Green
Por João Neto às 19:04 0 comentário(s)
abril 10, 2012
Filosofia
Por João Neto às 15:45 0 comentário(s)
março 30, 2012
Questões menores?
Por João Neto às 21:54 0 comentário(s)
março 28, 2012
Origens
Por João Neto às 07:31 0 comentário(s)
março 21, 2012
Impotência
Por João Neto às 21:57 0 comentário(s)
março 18, 2012
Limites e Influências
Por João Neto às 06:49 0 comentário(s)
março 15, 2012
Definições e Abusos
Por João Neto às 15:38 0 comentário(s)
março 12, 2012
Atribuição
Por João Neto às 07:26 0 comentário(s)
março 08, 2012
Tainter - The collapse of complex societies IV
[...]
Collapse occurs, and can only occur, in a power vacuum. Collapse is possible only where there is no competitor strong enough to fill the political vacuum of disintegration. Where such a competitor does exist there can be no collapse, for the competitor will expand territorially to administer the population left leaderless. Collapse is not the same thing as change of regime. Where peer polities interact collapse will affect all equally, and when it occurs, provided that no outside competitor is powerful enough to absorb all. [...] there are major differences between the current and the ancient worlds that have important implications for collapse. One of these is that the world today is full. That is to say, it is filled by complex societies; these occupy every sector of the globe, except the most desolate. This is a new factor in human history. Complex societies as a whole are a recent and unusual aspect of human life. The current situation, where all societies are so oddly constituted, is unique. [...] There are no power vacuums left today. Every nation is linked to, and influenced by, the major powers, and most are strongly linked with one power bloc or the other. [...] Collapse, if and when it comes again, will this time be global. No longer can any individual nation collapse. World civilization will disintegrate as a whole. Competitors who evolve as peers collapse in like manner.
Por João Neto às 07:53 0 comentário(s)
março 05, 2012
Tainter - The collapse of complex societies III
Rulers [...] must constantly legitimize their reigns. Legitimizing activities include such things as external defense and internal order, alleviating the effects of local productivity fluctuations, undertaking local development projects, and providing food and entertainment (as in Imperial Rome) for urban masses. In many cases the productivity of these legitimizing investments will decline. Whatever activities a hierarchy undertakes initially to bond a population to itself (providing defense, agricultural development, public works, bread and circuses, and the like) often thereafter become de rigueur, so that further bonding activities are at higher cost, with little or no additional benefit to the hierarchy. [...] The alternative course is to reduce legitimizing activities and increase other means of behavioral control. Yet in such situations, as resources committed to benefits decline, resources committed to control must increase. Although quantitative cost/beneft data for such control systems are rare, it seems reasonable to infer that as the costs of coercion increase, the benefits (in the form of population compliance) probably do not grow proportionately [...] These remarks are not meant to suggest that social evolution carries no benefits, nor that the marginal product of social complexity always declines. The marginal product of any investment declines only after a certain point; prior to that point benefits increase faster than costs. Very often, though, societies do reach a level where continued investment in complexity yields a declining marginal return. At that point the society is investing heavily in an evolutionary course that is becoming less and less productive, where at increased cost it is able to do little more than maintain the status quo.
[...]
For human societies, the best key to continued socioeconomic growth, and to avoiding or circumventing (or at least financing) declines in marginal productivity, is to obtain a new energy subsidy when it becomes apparent that marginal productivity is beginning to drop. Among modern societies this has been accomplished by tapping fossil fuel reserves and the atom. Among societies without the technical springboard necessary for such development, the usual temptation is to acquire an energy subsidy through territorial expansion.
Por João Neto às 07:26 0 comentário(s)


